Justin Litvack was named Boxer+Gerson’s (boxerlaw.com) newest partner at the beginning of 2018. Exactly one year later, he assumed duties as managing partner, responsible for day-to-day management of the firm’s attorneys and staff members. Born and raised in the Bay Area, he hails from a family of legal professionals, the majority of whom specialized in employment-related fields.
Justin spent the first seven years of his career on the defense side of the table as a partner at a prominent workers’ compensation firm, where he represented both large self-insured employers and many different insurance carriers. Seeing how difficult it was for injured workers to collect the benefits they were entitled to, he decided to switch his focus to injured workers to help them navigate the state’s complex workers’ compensation system. His experience in the insurance world has given him unique insights into defense tactics often aimed at delaying the delivery of benefits to deserving injured workers.
When he is not advocating on behalf of clients, Justin can usually be found watching a ball game and spending time with his family.
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Unionist is hosted by Phil Ybarrolaza in Oakland, CA.
This episode was recorded at the NorCalPods Studio inside of Keller Street Co-Work in Petaluma California. Unionist (unionistpodcast.com) is a proud member of the NorCal Pods (norcalpods.com) podcast network.
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[00:00:30] It's like, dad want to play video games?
[00:00:31] And he's way better than I was at his age and it bothers me.
[00:00:34] Well, how old are you?
[00:00:36] 40.
[00:00:36] 40? Yeah, that's gonna say you look so young.
[00:00:39] God.
[00:00:39] You're having an age real quick.
[00:00:41] Yeah, no, it takes years off your life.
[00:00:45] 40 and you're...
[00:00:46] So anyway, this is the Unionist podcast.
[00:00:51] Justin Litvak from Boxer Gerson.
[00:00:54] Thank you for sitting down and,
[00:00:57] you know, basically your firm is a workman's comp firm, right?
[00:01:00] We are...
[00:01:03] The vast majority of our practice are representing injured workers.
[00:01:06] We're a union shop.
[00:01:08] Our staff are Team Series 856.
[00:01:11] Oh, God.
[00:01:12] So we make it a practice to try to represent union members.
[00:01:16] Right.
[00:01:16] And yeah, going back for years, just in my experience,
[00:01:21] we've always referred people there.
[00:01:23] And I don't know that you're union exclusive,
[00:01:25] but you definitely...
[00:01:26] We're not.
[00:01:27] What's unique about your firm is you always kind of understood
[00:01:30] that the union has a role in what it does,
[00:01:33] in addition to what you guys do.
[00:01:36] Yeah, and that's...
[00:01:37] That is so important that I...
[00:01:42] I...
[00:01:45] We see a lot of different attorneys in our industry.
[00:01:48] Right, because as a union official,
[00:01:50] I can tell you sometimes people have their own attorneys
[00:01:53] and we end up stepping all over each other or worse,
[00:01:57] and it gets in the way of a person maybe getting what they need.
[00:02:01] Yeah, oftentimes what separates union workers from
[00:02:06] not every injured worker we represent,
[00:02:08] but a lot is they get paid well, great benefits.
[00:02:12] They want to go back to work.
[00:02:13] They don't like the fact that they got injured.
[00:02:16] Even if they're off work for six months,
[00:02:17] the goal is to get back to work.
[00:02:19] You know, I never even thought of that.
[00:02:21] Whereas a lot of our clients sometimes, yeah,
[00:02:25] they like the job but they don't care.
[00:02:27] The job is not as much a priority.
[00:02:29] So the relationship's not a priority either.
[00:02:32] It's not.
[00:02:32] For those people, yeah.
[00:02:33] But for a union employee, their goal is to get back to work.
[00:02:37] So oftentimes the goal is not the value of the case.
[00:02:41] The goal, and that's what makes what we do frankly more...
[00:02:44] That's a huge difference.
[00:02:45] It's exciting to me.
[00:02:46] Like we have a personal injury department.
[00:02:48] The goal of the personal injury department is obviously
[00:02:51] to serve your client, but it's always money.
[00:02:53] At the end of the day, it's a lawsuit and it's money.
[00:02:56] And workers come, and this is what makes this so exciting for me.
[00:03:00] The goal can be any number of things.
[00:03:02] It's often medical treatment.
[00:03:03] Sometimes it's getting back to work.
[00:03:05] Sometimes it's money.
[00:03:07] Who knows what it is?
[00:03:10] But for the most part, with union members, sometimes I'll...
[00:03:15] We will gladly take a discount on the case, or maybe your preference isn't to push what we call
[00:03:21] the value of the permanent disability.
[00:03:23] The goal is simply to get them back to work.
[00:03:25] Right. Because permanent disability, if it's not handled correctly, could...
[00:03:31] Do it with their job.
[00:03:31] Yeah. They could lose their job.
[00:03:32] They could injure themselves or permanently disable themselves right out of a job.
[00:03:37] And I'll never forget a phone call I received from a business agent who said to me,
[00:03:41] hey, I need your help on this case. It's another attorney.
[00:03:44] I don't know this attorney what's happening.
[00:03:46] So he sent me the information and he said that the members calling me freaking out that
[00:03:53] the employer was telling them they literally walked him off the job.
[00:03:57] And he said why?
[00:03:59] And I said, oh, well, there's a work restriction.
[00:04:01] Well, what's that?
[00:04:02] And I said, well, the doctor is concluding that your member can't do his job.
[00:04:07] And you know, warehouse job, driver job...
[00:04:10] Permanent work restriction or yeah.
[00:04:13] And I said that that's a permanent work restriction.
[00:04:15] Adios pension or anything else they're accruing, yeah.
[00:04:18] Right. And the attorney and it actually got a little ugly because he said to me,
[00:04:25] hey, can you talk to his attorney?
[00:04:26] I said, well, that's kind of weird.
[00:04:28] Yeah, that's super weird.
[00:04:28] We were going to call another attorney and say,
[00:04:31] you're not doing a good job like talk to your client.
[00:04:33] Right.
[00:04:34] But, you know, I did.
[00:04:37] Why not?
[00:04:37] So I stopped him in the hallway of court and I said, hey,
[00:04:40] you don't know me, you have this case.
[00:04:43] The union's calling me just as a colleague and he got upset with me.
[00:04:48] He said, don't tell me how to do my job.
[00:04:50] I said, okay, fine.
[00:04:51] Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:04:52] You have every right to say that.
[00:04:54] But the reality was that attorney did not understand
[00:04:58] how to represent a union member.
[00:05:01] And that union member had questions for the business agent
[00:05:04] and that business agent didn't have answers
[00:05:06] because they had no relationship with the attorney.
[00:05:08] Right.
[00:05:09] So we play a really important role in that process
[00:05:13] in just our understanding of how these issues interrelate.
[00:05:19] Well, yeah.
[00:05:20] And the difference for me because I've butted heads
[00:05:22] with attorneys in that situation
[00:05:23] because they're trying to wholly kind of sequester their client
[00:05:27] so they're not getting any other information from them.
[00:05:30] But from them.
[00:05:31] They're just like, I got to get my client the most money
[00:05:33] because what's weird, what's totally,
[00:05:35] I don't know if I can swear it, but what's totally asked.
[00:05:37] Yeah, we swear all the time.
[00:05:39] What's totally asked backwards about workers comp.
[00:05:41] And I.
[00:05:42] Is that swearing?
[00:05:42] Ask backwards?
[00:05:44] I think it's sort of swearing.
[00:05:45] So what's totally asked backwards about workers comp
[00:05:47] and I tell every one of my clients this,
[00:05:49] I don't even hide it.
[00:05:51] I make more money the more injured you are.
[00:05:54] How weird is that?
[00:05:56] Yeah, that is weird.
[00:05:56] Like I don't want to root against my clients,
[00:05:58] but the reality is that the state set up a system
[00:06:02] where we're paid a contingency fee
[00:06:04] based on the value of the case.
[00:06:05] More disability equals more money.
[00:06:08] So the more injured my client, the more money I make.
[00:06:10] How dumb is that?
[00:06:11] Yeah, that's crazy.
[00:06:12] I could do a ton of work getting my client
[00:06:14] all the right medical care, getting them back to work.
[00:06:18] And I am hurting myself.
[00:06:20] What I tell my clients is that's how you know
[00:06:23] that I'm a fiduciary to you because it's not about me.
[00:06:27] It's not about my money.
[00:06:28] It's about you.
[00:06:29] Well, that's always been my experience with the firm
[00:06:32] because I've been recommending people there for a long time.
[00:06:35] 20 years.
[00:06:36] And that is that John used to tell me
[00:06:41] that we're big enough, we're not going to, you know,
[00:06:44] one case isn't going to change the fortunes of the firm.
[00:06:49] In fact, when I was a defense attorney,
[00:06:52] I mean, how big are you?
[00:06:53] Boxer and Gerson.
[00:06:54] 15 attorneys.
[00:06:55] 15 attorneys.
[00:06:56] I mean, relative to like state.
[00:06:58] 50 employees.
[00:06:58] We're the largest.
[00:06:59] There are three or four workers, firms in the state
[00:07:03] that compared to us size wise.
[00:07:05] Gotcha.
[00:07:05] In the state.
[00:07:06] So I generally tell people we're the largest applicant law firm
[00:07:12] in the state.
[00:07:13] And here's what, here's where that plays a role.
[00:07:17] I was on the other side.
[00:07:18] I was a partner at a defense firm,
[00:07:20] meaning I tried to screw over injured workers.
[00:07:22] That was my goal.
[00:07:23] That's why I don't do it anymore.
[00:07:24] How dare you?
[00:07:25] Yeah, because it's an awful way to live.
[00:07:26] Like you ever want to feel awful about yourself?
[00:07:29] Go to like a cocktail party and you're thinking
[00:07:31] every one of you assholes is lying to me?
[00:07:33] Because you're just trained to just assume people are lying.
[00:07:37] Just an awful way to live.
[00:07:39] So my, there was an attorney at Boxer and Gerson
[00:07:42] who was notorious for just pushing cases until the very end.
[00:07:48] And what we always said on the defense side was
[00:07:51] only a boxer and Gerson can they do that
[00:07:54] because they don't feel the need to turn cases and make money.
[00:07:58] They're fine with letting a case play out,
[00:08:00] pursuing every last angle.
[00:08:02] And you can't have that mindset when you're trying as a defense lawyer
[00:08:08] to settle a case with Boxer and Gerson
[00:08:10] because they just don't, that's not how we operate.
[00:08:12] We have enough volume and enough clients,
[00:08:16] enough attorneys where enough is going to roll over every year.
[00:08:19] We're going to do okay.
[00:08:20] We never push anything.
[00:08:22] Yeah, that's amazing.
[00:08:23] And it's done really well for,
[00:08:26] you know, I was talking to a client on the way here.
[00:08:29] Her case is 10 years old and she's like, well, what's next?
[00:08:32] And I said, well, there's this, there's this.
[00:08:34] And she's like, can we be done?
[00:08:36] I said, yeah, we can be done.
[00:08:38] Here's the value if you want to be done.
[00:08:39] Right.
[00:08:40] Here's where I'm headed.
[00:08:42] And she's like, oh, I like that better.
[00:08:43] I said, yeah, so let's go for a ride.
[00:08:45] So if it's you and a buddy,
[00:08:46] I mean you can't live like that, right?
[00:08:49] I mean, so in other words, a small firm's gotta...
[00:08:52] Well, they have to pay people, right?
[00:08:54] Yeah, they've got to move cases.
[00:08:55] And it's a really weird ethical dilemma, right?
[00:08:59] Because as an applicant lawyer again,
[00:09:00] as a lawyer, you're fiduciating your client.
[00:09:03] You can't be interested in your own finances.
[00:09:08] That's not your job.
[00:09:10] But you better believe it happens.
[00:09:12] I ask you, yeah.
[00:09:13] I mean, that's the real world though, right?
[00:09:15] You better believe that you have attorneys out there
[00:09:18] who are thinking, I could really...
[00:09:20] They're offering me $500,000.
[00:09:24] The case is worth a million.
[00:09:26] Right.
[00:09:26] That's a nice fee on the 500.
[00:09:28] I can talk my client into it.
[00:09:30] That's an awful way to practice law,
[00:09:32] but unless you're at a firm that can handle that, there's...
[00:09:36] I'm not saying everyone isn't here doing that.
[00:09:39] Right, of course.
[00:09:39] But that risk is greater when you're your own person.
[00:09:44] So yeah, one and two man shops,
[00:09:45] I'm always impressed by them.
[00:09:47] We do do personal injury in addition to workers comp
[00:09:51] because sometimes the workers comp claim
[00:09:54] includes a personal injury case.
[00:09:59] Classic example, just to give you an easy example,
[00:10:02] like your UPS driver, your Teamster,
[00:10:04] your UPS driver, and you get hit by a FedEx truck.
[00:10:08] You've got a workers comp claim with UPS,
[00:10:10] but you better believe you're going to sue FedEx.
[00:10:13] Take them for all their worth.
[00:10:14] Because UPS isn't.
[00:10:16] Well, UPS can't.
[00:10:18] So you have the right to bring a workers comp claim.
[00:10:21] So explain that.
[00:10:22] So I'm a UPS driver.
[00:10:23] I get hit by a FedEx truck.
[00:10:25] UPS can't try to recover the cost.
[00:10:28] So UPS has to pay you benefits,
[00:10:31] because in whatever contractual obligations
[00:10:35] on top of everything else.
[00:10:36] What makes workers comp unique is
[00:10:37] you don't have to prove fault.
[00:10:39] So UPS didn't do anything wrong.
[00:10:41] You were just driving your route.
[00:10:42] Right.
[00:10:42] FedEx guy fell asleep and hit you.
[00:10:45] Yeah.
[00:10:45] So UPS says, okay, our insurance company will take care of you.
[00:10:50] You're off work.
[00:10:51] They give you medical treatment.
[00:10:52] They give you hopefully, they give you wages.
[00:10:55] You call a workers comp lawyer like me.
[00:10:57] We help guide you to the right doctors,
[00:10:59] make sure you get the right benefits.
[00:11:01] And then you have the right to sue FedEx separately
[00:11:06] because they cause the injury.
[00:11:07] Now you have to pay back UPS.
[00:11:10] So UPS has an ironically in what we call
[00:11:14] that third party case.
[00:11:15] You and UPS are on the same team.
[00:11:18] And now you're going after FedEx to get them to pay.
[00:11:22] And the money in a personal injury case is greater
[00:11:24] because you have to prove fault.
[00:11:26] Oh, okay.
[00:11:27] So in a workers comp there's no fault.
[00:11:29] No fault.
[00:11:30] I always tell this example,
[00:11:31] if my assistant heard it she'd probably yell at me.
[00:11:34] Like if my assistant who is just super clutzy
[00:11:37] and trips and falls walking out of my office
[00:11:39] and hits her head, I'm responsible.
[00:11:41] Even though I didn't do anything wrong.
[00:11:43] Is she clutzy?
[00:11:43] She's the cluts.
[00:11:44] She's not a cluts, but like she'd laugh if she heard this.
[00:11:47] So I'm responsible even though I didn't do anything wrong.
[00:11:51] She just tripped over her own feet.
[00:11:53] But she's at work.
[00:11:53] And she's on the clock.
[00:11:54] She's on the clock.
[00:11:55] Right?
[00:11:55] It's like the aphelac doc here.
[00:11:57] Right.
[00:11:58] Hurt at work.
[00:12:00] But yet she can't sue me.
[00:12:03] Right?
[00:12:04] She can't.
[00:12:04] She can't.
[00:12:05] Oh so that's the trade-off.
[00:12:07] That's the trade-off.
[00:12:07] She can't sue me even when I am at fault
[00:12:10] unless it's an extreme level of fault.
[00:12:11] You're like grossly negligent.
[00:12:12] Right.
[00:12:13] Then she can come after me in certain circumstances.
[00:12:16] So when there's a third party case.
[00:12:43] Okay, round two.
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[00:13:20] You can sue for fault so you can have your cake and eat it too.
[00:13:24] Gotcha.
[00:13:24] You get your benefits, you get your treatment
[00:13:26] and then you can get greedy by going after the third party defendant.
[00:13:31] Well is it greedy or is it?
[00:13:32] It's what you deserve.
[00:13:34] Right.
[00:13:34] It's what you deserve.
[00:13:36] Well not only that but FedEx isn't going to lose FedEx the big amorphous.
[00:13:42] Yeah they're not going to.
[00:13:43] The non-union FedEx.
[00:13:44] Yeah they're not going to stop the operation to see if you're okay.
[00:13:48] No, no we would love to go after FedEx.
[00:13:52] Oh FedEx.
[00:13:52] I've been around UPS drivers and delivery guys and truck drivers long enough to know
[00:13:57] that there is sometimes a peer pressure right?
[00:14:01] To not file claims.
[00:14:02] To not file claims and I think for every fake claim there is in my experience
[00:14:07] there's probably 10 people that didn't file a claim.
[00:14:10] Did you ever work in a warehouse?
[00:14:12] Oh yeah.
[00:14:12] So did you do they have the sign like 42 days without an accident?
[00:14:16] Oh yeah, yeah.
[00:14:16] Fuck that.
[00:14:17] That's just they're just deterring people because they want their t-shirt or their
[00:14:20] barbecue lunch.
[00:14:21] Right or no you get the points for the drawing on the prize.
[00:14:25] Right.
[00:14:25] Yeah well and the thing is now I'm 50 and I've had a spinal fusion
[00:14:32] which was a non-workman's comp thing but I guarantee you that.
[00:14:37] You should have called me we could have figured out a way.
[00:14:39] Well I can tell you after 25 years of various jobs in a warehouse and in a truck and everything else
[00:14:46] that you know I used up definitely part of my body.
[00:14:50] Of course.
[00:14:50] And nobody's going to look out for you you know.
[00:14:53] No they don't.
[00:14:53] This is a this is a perfect segue.
[00:14:56] Because and I'm reminded of Joe Montana but go ahead.
[00:14:58] So football players.
[00:15:00] Oh okay perfect.
[00:15:00] This is a perfect segue in the football person.
[00:15:02] I fight this battle daily.
[00:15:04] I get calls from athletes.
[00:15:07] Athletes what kind of athletes?
[00:15:08] Football players, hockey players any professional athlete.
[00:15:11] I get calls from from these guys.
[00:15:14] I have yet to represent a female professional athlete but hopefully I will.
[00:15:18] But okay they.
[00:15:20] Simone Biles is out there.
[00:15:22] It's true if I could find a way to get in.
[00:15:23] Good for her by the way but go ahead.
[00:15:25] So so these guys sometimes I run into these guys who are like I can't I can't
[00:15:31] file a workers company.
[00:15:32] One guy has a has a I represent as a serious brain injury.
[00:15:39] He told me when we first met.
[00:15:42] I don't know about this.
[00:15:43] The CTE and stuff right.
[00:15:45] And I said well you have to protect yourself.
[00:15:47] And sure enough we're getting to the end of the case now.
[00:15:50] And he confides in me privately how much he's struggling.
[00:15:56] But he will not pursue his claim.
[00:16:00] Because it's like a sign of weakness.
[00:16:02] And it's not money at this point.
[00:16:04] It's crazy.
[00:16:04] No for those for some of those guys some of those guys need the money.
[00:16:08] If you look at football I mean how big is a NFL roster 70 70 players.
[00:16:12] 45 guys on active roster or 45 guys on an active roster.
[00:16:16] So I mean that's a lot of you know if you're the 40th guy.
[00:16:20] Well those are the guys that don't want to file.
[00:16:22] No you're not going to file.
[00:16:23] Because they're like this is going to be held against me but but here's the irony.
[00:16:27] And then you get a check mark from one team and then he's always got an attitude or some
[00:16:30] bullshit like that.
[00:16:31] This is the irony of this.
[00:16:33] So the way the way they divide up the revenue in the NFL.
[00:16:39] Seeing how the NFL and the players association negotiate a contract makes
[00:16:45] like the typical UPS.
[00:16:47] Don't get me started.
[00:16:48] Like it's so different right.
[00:16:52] So they're negotiating a percentage of the pie.
[00:16:55] Right.
[00:16:56] So all football related income they get a percentage of and it gets divided by number
[00:17:00] of teams and that's how they come up with a salary cap.
[00:17:02] Right.
[00:17:03] So these guys don't understand that that I need to do a little more explaining.
[00:17:12] Yes.
[00:17:12] If if name your name your was your favorite NFL team.
[00:17:16] Well I'm a Raider fan.
[00:17:17] You're a Raider fan.
[00:17:18] Yeah still.
[00:17:19] So so Derek Carr.
[00:17:20] Yeah.
[00:17:21] Not anymore but Derek Carr gets hurt gets.
[00:17:24] He goes and says something stupid like all lives matter again or something.
[00:17:27] No but you remember the guy you remember.
[00:17:31] Suppose he gets helmet in the back right.
[00:17:33] Right.
[00:17:33] The offensive line the offensive line isn't blocked for anymore.
[00:17:36] So he's hurt and he goes and gets an MRI.
[00:17:41] Who's paying for that MRI?
[00:17:42] Who do you think pays for it?
[00:17:43] The team.
[00:17:44] No.
[00:17:45] The league.
[00:17:46] No.
[00:17:46] Insurance company they filed a claim.
[00:17:50] They've the team files a workers comp claim.
[00:17:52] And that image that treatment is paid for not by the Raiders but by an insurance company of the Raiders.
[00:18:00] Right.
[00:18:01] So so the Raiders or met life or whoever the Raiders orthopedic surgeon right is not a Raider employee.
[00:18:07] Wait a minute he's not.
[00:18:08] He's not an employee Dr. Raider is not Dr. Raider is not a Raider employee.
[00:18:12] He's a he's a private.
[00:18:13] He's still got a commitment to excellence though.
[00:18:15] He still does yeah 49.
[00:18:16] Nobody's he's completely unrelated to the team other than other than they probably say come
[00:18:21] travel with the team.
[00:18:23] Right.
[00:18:23] And yeah we want to we want you to be our surgeon but you're not an employee.
[00:18:27] We're going to give you a lot of business because a lot of our guys are going to get hurt this year
[00:18:30] but but you're not an employee.
[00:18:32] So that insurance policy costs a lot of money right so let's say that premium
[00:18:38] that is a million dollars.
[00:18:40] Well guess who guess who's paying for their own insurance premium the players.
[00:18:47] So that's that's bargained into their yeah in what world.
[00:18:51] Do the do the so so you have players basically paying for their own workers comp premium.
[00:18:57] That's some real skin in the game bullshit there and then players and then this is what's
[00:19:01] crazy and then players not wanting to file claims.
[00:19:04] It's crazy and it's it's whenever I get the chance I harp on this fact to players.
[00:19:10] The team is taking advantage of the insurance policy because they don't want to pay for
[00:19:14] the treatment right you're entitled to benefits one of which is future medical for life
[00:19:19] by not filing you're only screwing yourself right.
[00:19:22] Right.
[00:19:22] It's crazy that guys don't do it but they feel some some guys feel some weird sense.
[00:19:28] Well it's a match of the weakness in filing and to the to the union's credit
[00:19:33] they've really really fought that battle.
[00:19:36] I mean they want guys filing because it's their right.
[00:19:39] Well what surprised me is way back in the day when the 49ers were making all their
[00:19:43] championship runs and Montana got hurt somebody was telling me Montana filed a workman's
[00:19:49] comp claim.
[00:19:50] I think he has a 99% award against the 49ers and here's here's why that matters.
[00:19:54] This is Joe Montana.
[00:19:55] It's not about the money.
[00:19:56] Prior to Brady was the greatest of all time for sure and is getting workman's comp
[00:20:01] like he's a warehouse guy.
[00:20:02] But what he's getting is future medical for life.
[00:20:06] Right.
[00:20:06] And I tell every player I talk to you're superhuman now you're just going to be
[00:20:12] he's getting legal protection too for you know what I mean because obviously it's not about
[00:20:18] just paying for the money in the moment.
[00:20:19] It's funny when you actually explain to guys that you're protecting them down the road
[00:20:23] they're a lot more understanding because the team the team like any
[00:20:28] especially the team is going to cover their ass for sure first first fucking thing.
[00:20:33] No in fact what the teams do a lot of is they'll hand a player a notice they'll
[00:20:36] leave it in their locker and they'll say oh just sign there it's to protect you.
[00:20:40] Oh no it's not.
[00:20:42] It's to screw you so that when you're done with the team in five years and you go back
[00:20:46] to file your workers comp claims.
[00:20:48] It's and your body shot.
[00:20:50] Oh you signed a waiver you signed something saying you didn't have any injuries.
[00:20:55] Why would you sign that?
[00:20:57] Oh they just told me to sign.
[00:20:59] So that's part of the physical I would imagine.
[00:21:01] And the exit season physical on the very bottom of your exit season physical says
[00:21:05] I've been advised to my workers comp rights I have no injuries blah blah blah
[00:21:08] and those guys they want to go home and the last thing they want to do is say
[00:21:14] oh every part of my body hurts because they want to play.
[00:21:17] Right well and especially if you're if you're leading the wedge on kickoffs or something
[00:21:23] you know those are the guys that you know you could get cut or not.
[00:21:26] It's it has fundamentally changed the way I watch football
[00:21:30] and I can't say I'm happy about that.
[00:21:32] I've kind of been getting away from football man with the whole CTE thing
[00:21:36] and then they talk about player safety and then they want to extend the season
[00:21:40] which is so contradictory.
[00:21:42] How about this story a player called me maybe three weeks ago.
[00:21:48] We're talking about NFL players NFL players a player called me three weeks ago and told me
[00:21:54] that the team gave him an option where if he accepted the option about about.
[00:22:03] Geez you got to deal with agents.
[00:22:04] It was tied.
[00:22:04] Oh yeah it was tied to his contract that if he took that option they would give him an MRI.
[00:22:12] Oh my god they are as cutthroat as it gets.
[00:22:16] And what a classic employer and I feel and that's why it's changed it for me because
[00:22:21] like by the way not all employers are bad but they're like like unions and cops and people
[00:22:29] are bad they're bad ones and good ones.
[00:22:31] Yeah but this just like I feel bad walking into a stadium and rooting for the 49ers knowing
[00:22:37] this employer is if I just look at them as an employer it's not that they're a bad employer
[00:22:43] it's just that they're running that business and they're legal departments conniving
[00:22:48] and and they don't like they're literally screwing over some of my clients
[00:22:54] and why do I want to support that by giving my money to that team right that's why it's
[00:22:58] made it a little weird for me to to follow football I watch now and I see a guy injured
[00:23:06] and I'm like oh fuck yeah like that's not good and you know like so if you're injured I you know I
[00:23:11] never thought about it but if you're a football player if you're pro football player and you're
[00:23:14] injured it's workman's con your employee right same rights apply unless you're a college player
[00:23:20] yeah then you're not oh my god that's a whole other thing I'm so happy yeah they're finally
[00:23:25] that they have nli rights because in what world can you be really great at something
[00:23:30] and people want to pay you to be a spokesperson for that right and you're like right no I can't
[00:23:36] I can't take it I can't do that or we can hide it or your coach is making millions of dollars
[00:23:41] and and you can't profit off your own name oh crazy going back to the eddo banon thing
[00:23:49] yeah you know about that and yeah I don't remember well he tells about the case but yeah
[00:23:54] yeah I mean the thing with the eddo at obanon thing is he's playing a video game
[00:23:58] with him in the game yeah and he's in his dorm room or whatever and he's like I can't get
[00:24:03] any money for this it's literally him it looks like me it's my number it's my name on the jersey
[00:24:08] it's my size it's my attributes and I can't make a penny that's great and I I grew up playing
[00:24:15] those video games yeah and I always just laugh because yeah it's crazy it's obviously the player
[00:24:21] but right just that that bothered me the nc2a is it bothered me that that they didn't get to profit on
[00:24:30] it off at the same way it bothers me that they don't get medical coverage because a lot of these guys
[00:24:36] show up to the nfl and I'll talk to them and they're like oh yeah it's an old college injury
[00:24:40] and they have no coverage for that oh geez and now they got to sign off too that their knees
[00:24:47] they're gonna gimpy knees so the team's not responsible because his knee it's back from college he had a
[00:24:53] knee problem guys that have multiple knee surgeries in college and they have no ability to go get medical
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[00:26:04] I mean what about the guy I don't see in the NFL a guy that just has a severe injury in college
[00:26:09] a career ending injury tough yeah tough luck tough luck oh well we gave you a college ride
[00:26:17] and and I'm not saying that's not valuable right but relative to no I mean I you know I'd give
[00:26:26] give the coach an education and don't pay him or see how that goes or how about that or
[00:26:31] at least provide the guy medical protection for the rest of his life right like do something
[00:26:37] to help that kid and then so how does that work so it seems pretty obvious now that if you're a pro
[00:26:44] and you're hurt on the field it's a workman's comp claim not claim because you're a work they're not
[00:26:48] employees it's just that simple in college that's so nobody's responsible for the injury but the
[00:26:54] player they're not employees man well I would I would you know I don't it's just totally crazy
[00:27:02] it's why it's why and and I don't we don't have to get into it it's it but it's why the the
[00:27:12] I mean if you can go pro then or or sit out I'm trying to think who sat out their last college
[00:27:18] year oh to go pro it's a no-brainer for me right like put yourself in bubble wrap and get
[00:27:24] wait and wait until your name is called once you become as soon as you sound your name
[00:27:29] they're gonna afford you a multi-million dollar check some of the players that I've talked to
[00:27:33] I have found out have insurance policies so when they become back right you hear about that sometimes
[00:27:39] pay for an insurance policy but that's still not enough but if they can afford it too if they
[00:27:43] can afford it right if they come from a background that allows it I did hear can
[00:27:47] it can we invest in that yeah that'd be a good idea I'm serious you know what I mean we'll
[00:27:51] we'll pay for your policy either we'll take a share of your policy for one percent of your
[00:27:55] earnings yeah no I don't I'm sure someone's thought of that but but it's it's why the the whole
[00:28:04] tech world uber drivers it's why that drove me nuts well there's there's one thing I was
[00:28:12] when we were when I saw that we were going to talk there's one thing that's kind of
[00:28:15] newsy right now which I wanted to get your opinion on and that is these content moderators
[00:28:20] for like YouTube and Facebook do you know about this no so any any horrible thing you can imagine
[00:28:30] people try to upload to YouTube and Facebook right and so these things get marked or flagged
[00:28:35] and then there's people's jobs their job is to watch all the stuff and see if it's objectionable
[00:28:42] or not and the horror the horrible things they have to see yeah and on a on a basis so the the
[00:28:52] they are they employees like are of course not no Facebook or they just say we're looking for people
[00:28:58] to so Facebook Facebook hires out another company who employs these people right and so their
[00:29:06] their big argument is is they need mental health care for sure you know from some of the
[00:29:12] traumatic things they're subjected to all the time absolutely and and they're having
[00:29:17] having trouble getting it you know but I thought that was really interesting because it's something
[00:29:21] you don't think about what an awful job that would be we see that we see that a lot with police
[00:29:26] and fire well and it reminds me of a case going back who was a member and also a good friend
[00:29:33] who was constantly being harassed by a supervisor and tried to pursue a workman's a mental health
[00:29:40] workman's comp which is from what I've heard in my experience nearly impossible to prove it's harder
[00:29:48] and it's and you get you get a lot of rolling eyes from doctors from sometimes judges but
[00:29:56] sometimes all the time defense attorneys right oh come on right like this is your injury and it was
[00:30:02] in this case it was crystal clear to me but even still it was like you're better off pursuing it
[00:30:07] as a disability case and not a cop case because you could you could know what a whole another issue
[00:30:13] just trying to pursue it as copies and the legislature made we call them psychiatric
[00:30:18] cases made them harder to prove so you actually have a standard whereas a physical injury
[00:30:26] if you get hurt on the job even if you've had 10 prior ankle injuries right if you twist your ankle
[00:30:31] it's still an injury on the job right for a psychiatric injury you have to prove
[00:30:37] predominant cause it has to be more than 50% just a basic rule so so you you have people who
[00:30:44] have all a whole host of trauma in their life and then they have a work event or or they're
[00:30:50] just married can I have kids right they've experienced a lot I mean they've lived a life
[00:30:58] well so in this guy's case what happened was is he had a he had been friends with one of the
[00:31:04] management people 10 years prior and because of that relationship that kind of overrode anything
[00:31:12] else that might have been work related yeah and and what by the way you guys weren't involved
[00:31:17] in this at all what doesn't what a lot of people don't understand is there's a difference between
[00:31:23] the standard of injury and what we call the standard for permanent disability apportionment
[00:31:27] we call it so for example if you have a whole awful history they did a number on him too with
[00:31:35] investigators and we're talking worst of the worst stuff right yeah you've had trauma in your
[00:31:41] life family members die you've had let's say you were abused as a child like just a rough life
[00:31:47] right and then you go to work basically you can't be abused at work then is sort of
[00:31:53] violent this is what people say right but but the reality is that's still an injury you were
[00:31:57] working just fine you entered the labor market you've got a job you're successful until this
[00:32:02] awful supervisor as long as it's not what we call a good faith personnel action
[00:32:06] but this this awful supervisor treated you a certain way you can still have an injury and
[00:32:13] just what we call a portion out a lot of the disability to prior stuff but a lot of times
[00:32:19] they'll just lump it all together and say no bad history so no injury right like that person
[00:32:24] can't have an injury now and and i've talked to some doctors and they said that i seem to be
[00:32:30] using this word a lot today it's it's asked backwards because somebody who goes through that trauma
[00:32:36] and gets through it is probably mentally stronger than somebody who has never dealt with trauma in
[00:32:41] their life or has better tools and everything else right and so to get through all that and still be
[00:32:47] working and succeeding in life and then to have an event that takes you off your path that event's
[00:32:52] probably more of a big deal but yet in workers comp you know that person bad history they can't
[00:33:00] have an injury i've i i represented injured worker who she she experienced some awful things in a courtroom
[00:33:10] awful things she she was she was a cork for some hearings for for criminal proceedings so like
[00:33:19] rapist murderers and she's in the courtroom with these people hearing the details
[00:33:24] significant trauma that she has suffered and and she's got to do that case that that case is over
[00:33:31] another case comes up right you have an insurance company that's like no this lady's fine
[00:33:38] like let's lock you in a courtroom with these people hearing those details and you think you'll be
[00:33:43] okay right over and over and over and over and over this poor lady has has doesn't feel safe
[00:33:50] i don't mind her that's her reality she lived that and yet insurance company no nothing wrong
[00:33:55] looks like police milk in the system police i can't imagine police that have like long-term careers
[00:34:04] because you're seeing the worst worse people the worst of people all the time you know and that
[00:34:11] you know how how they maintain their sanity is just beyond me there's a saying i don't i don't
[00:34:18] they've had their issues and you know my i'm like hey police you know all these issues were
[00:34:25] legitimate and i think they need to pay them more to get a better quality of person
[00:34:29] and in addition train them more you know well we saw i don't know the specifics but i think
[00:34:36] there was some legislation in new york after september 11th that protected those those first
[00:34:43] responders oh and i know that we had we had we obviously have legislation in california that
[00:34:49] protects safety officers that's what's funny you have to i remember so john stewart the comedian slash
[00:34:56] daily show hose oh yeah yeah he was out there they were still trying to get support and benefits
[00:35:02] for first responders on 9 11 and anybody you think that deserves it deserves it would be taken care
[00:35:09] of saw the worst of the worst and they're still and we're screwing with still trying to screw over
[00:35:13] those people you know it's we tell we tell all of our clients insurance companies are the worst
[00:35:19] company is not your friend one of my partners i i didn't i didn't know this history he he moved
[00:35:26] out here after i'm going to butcher this story yeah go ahead he knows that you know he knows all
[00:35:31] the details i don't know i get stories wrong all the time so he he moved out here after
[00:35:34] katrina in new orleans right disaster right natural disaster he said he had to sue his own
[00:35:41] insurance company lost his house in katrina it flooded his house obviously yeah there was this
[00:35:47] thing called a hurricane right right and he said he had to sue his insurance company to get them
[00:35:53] his homeowners insurance to get them to cover the loss like really i mean they're gonna spread
[00:35:59] the losses to me anyway talk about a great business if they pay a lot they just make
[00:36:03] everyone else pay for that loss they can't ever lose and i feel like they're always going to test
[00:36:08] everybody a little bit like you know can you get through the phone menu can you get through the
[00:36:14] callbacks can you get through the paperwork to file actually file a claim and to bring it full circle
[00:36:20] yes this is why we get phone calls from people and they say well i was told the call a warrior
[00:36:27] a lawyer and i say he trust the insurance company well they're nice to me
[00:36:37] the system is set up the workers comp system is set up so workman's comp bring it home
[00:36:43] well first off you get in trouble for calling it work man's compensation work well it's workers
[00:36:48] comp it's workers comp you'll get you'll get in trouble so i got in trouble i should get in
[00:36:53] trouble i had to have dare you my first job was i had two female partners at the law firm
[00:37:00] and i didn't know what i was doing the first day i was reading a statute to them and it said work
[00:37:06] man's compensation in the statute yeah all the all the old contracts i used to do said work man's
[00:37:12] and they lost it on me how dare you and i said i just reading so since then i don't know why
[00:37:21] my mind picks it up no it's good to me and people hang on to that people hang on to that they're like
[00:37:25] oh well the art of the language should be and it's like if it if it's called workers yeah if it
[00:37:32] offends somebody then it's not worth having yeah it's just that simple it's like the redskins you
[00:37:36] know is it really worth arguing over the name no are the are the indians are the indians right
[00:37:41] who cares i know right so uh we tell people all the time we we go into meetings with employees
[00:37:49] and we say the system is not set up to where they're just going to give you benefits you have to fight
[00:37:54] for what you're entitled to they'll send you to a doctor who doesn't want to help you a doctor who's
[00:37:59] paid by the insurance company right whose whole goal is to screw you occupational medicine right
[00:38:05] there you could literally walk in there with your arm hanging by like a tendon and they tell
[00:38:10] you to go back to work you know that you know the best occupational health place i ever went
[00:38:14] to and i had you know i had a physical job i had a lot of injuries was kaiser and that
[00:38:20] that company did not stick with kaiser very long because kaiser didn't didn't play that game
[00:38:25] and it well now they do so they have a whole division kaiser occupational medicine right
[00:38:30] which is not the same as going to your normal kaiser they're they're they're firewalled now
[00:38:36] they are paid by the employer not not again not an insurance plan they're paid by the
[00:38:42] employer and i would say when when when kaiser occupational medicine goes to
[00:38:48] x insurance company and says we want your business what do you think they're selling them right we
[00:38:53] will get your people back to work as quickly and cheaply as possible and damn it they do with the
[00:38:58] least liability with it that and they do i mean in what world do you have people who
[00:39:02] walk in with a shoulder injury and they're said well let's do let's do 10 physical therapy
[00:39:09] sessions and if it still hurts then we'll do an MRI right and meanwhile you you know probably 90%
[00:39:18] of those people are in more pain because well so they have a torn something in their shoulder
[00:39:24] but justin so i'm an employee right yeah i see my employer every day i know them i have a level
[00:39:31] of comfort with them you're an outsider you're some attorney you don't know me you don't
[00:39:35] know them right um so i get i get hurt at work i mean i'm inclined to listen to the people that i
[00:39:43] know you should right that's that's the first that's the first problem but but i get it what i
[00:39:48] know but what i've always told people too is you can only trust somebody in that situation
[00:39:53] as much as they're allowed to to help you you know and if there if some boss is boss
[00:40:00] and it's different when it's a mom and pop but if it's some corporation you know
[00:40:04] some mid-level manager guy is going to go no you're gonna not going to help that guy get him back to
[00:40:10] work i have no interest i i mean that's why we we we try to educate members on the importance of
[00:40:16] pre-designating you can actually i want to cover your doctor i want to cover pre-designating
[00:40:21] and then also for joe schmo because the other thing that i think would probably
[00:40:27] that i would think some people would be concerned about his cost too so so so pre-designating
[00:40:33] i mean how does that work because i know the laws change it seems like it changes every
[00:40:36] couple years you can pick your workers comp doctor in advance of having an injury
[00:40:44] your doctor and when you do that you you avoid all of the really rigid rules that are set up
[00:40:51] in workers come i've had a doctor say in the past that they don't do comp my regular so so the
[00:40:57] doctor has to agree that's the hard part right but what what what an educated person will do and most
[00:41:03] don't understand this is say to your doctor look i just need you to sign the form and if i get hurt
[00:41:10] i'm gonna come in and you can just refer refer over that's what i was gonna say right for me too
[00:41:15] you don't have that's why i brought it up because i won't yeah but you have to get the doctor
[00:41:20] to say that by the way kaiser won't do this kaiser basically says no that's that's that's our
[00:41:25] occupation so anyone with kaiser can tune out right oh gotcha but even if you have them i'm a kaiser
[00:41:32] it's worth it i am too i've had three kids at kaiser you know well i have we have the same benefits
[00:41:38] i know i just took the needle down at the 99 monocito so so we if if if you can pre-designate
[00:41:46] you can avoid the the occupational health it's worth it if and i've told friends of this who have two
[00:41:54] jobs and then the the other question i have is does that person have to have treated you before
[00:42:01] so treated is a weird word they have to have seen again we can cut all this out if it's weird but
[00:42:07] they have to have seen you before i don't know what level of treatment is required so what i have
[00:42:12] always suggested right because if you and i i've told friends this who have warehouse jobs i've said
[00:42:19] you're gonna get hurt at some point you have a heavy job yeah you're gonna get it's gonna happen it's
[00:42:24] so true if you have a family doctor who you've seen go pay that guy a hundred bucks or go go
[00:42:32] pay him a hundred bucks see him one time sign the form turn in the form to your employer
[00:42:37] and you've just avoided occupational medicine you have saved yourself so much headache when
[00:42:42] you eventually do get hurt right it you will laugh at how easy that was and how good of an idea that
[00:42:49] was but most people are like oh i'm not going to get hurt i'm super human no they with the box
[00:42:54] everybody everybody thinks they're not going to get hurt that's the funny part and they do
[00:42:58] and that that in a nutshell is why
[00:43:04] there's a there's an adage that attorneys are drunks right you've probably no i haven't heard this that
[00:43:10] that i think the highest of any profession like by the way i've been i've been on an attorney
[00:43:15] streak for some reason so the the the alcoholic rate of attorneys is obscene oh okay and i think
[00:43:23] and no one knows why but i think it's because we we spend our day dealing with other people's problems
[00:43:29] well i know that one so so this is a classic example of why i i i love what we do because
[00:43:38] i literally get people calling me on their worst day they never thought they'd get hurt they just
[00:43:43] i make good money i have family i pay my rent i pay my mortgage and i'm safe i'm safe and then
[00:43:49] they get hurt and they get that first check and it's two-thirds of what they used to make
[00:43:54] and they're freaking out i can't i can't afford i can't afford to to to live a life i have kids so
[00:44:04] we always check phones so i can't have people like oh don't you don't look at your phone and
[00:44:08] why you're you know it's like i have kids speaking of which the guy who's calling me
[00:44:13] me dumped his truck perfect example teamster member right successful family kids allegedly great family
[00:44:23] breaks gave out on his truck flipped it and was in the icu for four weeks like this is why i i love
[00:44:30] what we do because i get to help people through that crisis in their life and hopefully steer
[00:44:35] them back onto the right course well getting to that point earlier is you know you're so
[00:44:41] i know my employer i know i've got a relationship with them i don't know you at all but the truth is
[00:44:47] it's not your employer handling somebody's injury it's their insurance insurance company the employer
[00:44:51] literally sends a form to their insurance company and they're driving and they're driving from that
[00:44:57] point they tell they tell them yeah i don't give a shit if that's your best friend yeah you know
[00:45:01] you're gonna deny this or you're gonna you're gonna try to get him back to work the only
[00:45:05] thing the employer knows from that point on is i'm saying why should somebody call you if
[00:45:09] somebody call you if they feel like you know i've worked with i've worked with bobby for 20 years
[00:45:15] because because they're not dealing with bobby and even though bobby may want to help them bobby's
[00:45:19] the face of them though the insurance company is the one paying the bills and the insurance
[00:45:24] company has no interest in protecting them has no interest in their health protecting them
[00:45:29] is solely interested in how do i get out of this claim as cheaply as possible there's a claim
[00:45:35] the employer faxed it over my job is to close it as quickly as you get rid of little claims and turn
[00:45:42] big claims into little claims and they need an any person who doesn't think they need help
[00:45:47] adjusters go to school they have to go to training to do their job and you you think an employee
[00:45:54] is it's a fair fight when an employee is dealing with that person it's not fair it's not a fair
[00:45:59] fight so they need a lawyer and what's what's crazy and this is as to your next question yeah so
[00:46:04] what's it gonna cost we pay for ourselves that's what's so crazy about this so that's that's written
[00:46:09] into the statute right we we take we're on a contingency fee basis yeah so i never will i get
[00:46:16] this question all day like i can't afford a lawyer and i say you can't not afford to have me and i
[00:46:21] don't cost you anything well that's the thing that's crazy because that's the first thing i know
[00:46:26] that when i was young especially when you're younger you don't understand these things you
[00:46:30] know right we take a percentage of your recovery at the end if we don't get your recovery we don't
[00:46:37] get paid and our involvement will increase the value of your case anyway well what's funny is too
[00:46:42] just talking about the particular particulars of your firm is just having your firm call or
[00:46:51] so it's so this is personal experience now and it's going to sound like a testimonial
[00:46:55] but having referred people to to Boxerlaw.com for years just the involvement of your firm
[00:47:01] has ended so many shenanigans for people about arguing whether or not they're going to get physical
[00:47:06] therapy or what the care gets instantly better and people don't get fucked with that have you on
[00:47:14] their side it's been my experience and that's that's that's our goal right i mean that our
[00:47:19] goal is to make it so that you're not going to get fucked with on the basis it's easier to
[00:47:24] fuck with the guy that doesn't have you guys yeah and we're talking basics like an MRI this is why i
[00:47:30] always laugh at insurance companies because i'll you know they're at industry events i'll talk
[00:47:35] to people is that like if you don't test for COVID you don't find COVID right you don't get an MRI
[00:47:40] we'll never know so yeah it's amazing rates have gone COVID rates are way down of course there's
[00:47:47] more we're testing nobody told me we didn't terminus because we didn't get an MRI so so the
[00:47:54] at industry events we often get asked like well why do people come find a lawyer it's money right
[00:48:02] that's the thought thereafter money i don't remember the last injured worker who has come to
[00:48:08] see me talking about money they come because i just want an MRI i don't know what's wrong with
[00:48:14] my shoulder right or my back's bad and i can't have physical therapy they tell me we're fine
[00:48:19] or i love this one i have i fell and i hurt my back and my knee and the doctor's telling me i can only
[00:48:26] have one body part oh really is that a thing that's a thing the occupational medicine doctor told me i'm
[00:48:32] only allowed to treat for one body part like what since when is that a thing right like that's
[00:48:38] that's not you just made that up but then half of the people right it's it's like the sports
[00:48:43] you know tip gambling people right i mean half of the people are gonna go away then and say well
[00:48:48] okay i can only pick one that happens and that happens we only they somebody's got the you know
[00:48:54] the at the insurance statistic institute they know exactly how many people will walk away from a problem
[00:49:03] just by being challenged they do studies on when they when they change a law on the savings
[00:49:10] that that changed law is created until a lot of attorneys we laugh because we're like well that
[00:49:14] that law didn't help anyone but it's the cases we well we don't see it seems like a lot of times too
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[00:49:52] terms and conditions 18 plus the employers and not the not the employees you know i mean i i mean
[00:49:58] i what do you mean don't get started this is praise people the laws are they to handcuff you
[00:50:03] guys right the teamsters ufc w s ci you mean all these unions have people fighting and and
[00:50:16] the legislature just continues to punish injured workers and it's amazing to me
[00:50:22] why this issue doesn't get more traction because everyone's going to get hurt on the job
[00:50:28] but nobody assumes nobody believes don't get hurt yeah if you work for a living
[00:50:32] you're going to get hurt you're going to get hurt if you physically work and and yet and yet these
[00:50:37] issues get no traction right like nobody cares whether you know your your politician runs on a
[00:50:45] workers comp platform that doesn't move the needle right but yet they'll make statements like make
[00:50:50] the state more business friendly you've probably heard that yeah what do you think that means
[00:50:55] it means cutting workers comp costs cutting insurance costs well who's that going to screw
[00:51:00] over right workers well yeah they hold they hold workers hostage for everything now and it's
[00:51:06] insane you don't cut our taxes and it's and what it's doing is and i just don't cut our taxes the
[00:51:12] workers get it we're going to cut them it's screwing over the the health and welfare funds
[00:51:19] because when oh no doubt when when you can't get treatment for your work injury thank you
[00:51:25] workers comp i can personally you go use your private insurance tbt i'm not i'm not saying i ever did
[00:51:31] it but i did it a lot where it was just it's so work when you know it work with comp so being a union
[00:51:38] memory going back to years past myself and i know several people that would deal with this is it
[00:51:44] was so much harder to get care and decent care and treatment through a workman's comp case that
[00:51:48] you go through your regular insurance yeah and who's that who and who's paying for that and well
[00:51:52] everybody yeah so so it's like great so we're shifting this company wins again so insurance
[00:51:58] company wins so clip another cigar and toast another brandy it's like these issues get no
[00:52:07] traction they affect everybody but yet well it's apathy you know it just kills me and i and
[00:52:16] and we host we have marketing events we host the there's an applicant attorney association
[00:52:22] we have we have a so how does that so how does that work i get injured at work i mean union
[00:52:27] member not a union member i'm just i work for a living you're on your own unless you so
[00:52:33] so i go to boxerlaw.com just call in call switchboard number 83510835870
[00:52:40] and we'll get you to an attorney and the attorney can jump in right away and help
[00:52:44] and and and again i always get i always get well what does this cost me right we i've never sent
[00:52:51] a bill to an injured worker in my life when do i sign something so saying that it's a free consultation
[00:52:57] first of all okay to figure out if you need a word walk me through all right so i get hurt i call
[00:53:01] you say come on down we're gonna talk how'd you get hurt yeah are you getting treatment
[00:53:06] are you working just the basics you know it's another tricky one too and i made you do something
[00:53:11] that i'm going in a different direction but is that the cumulative injuries too because
[00:53:17] it's always been my understanding that there needs to be like an event
[00:53:20] yeah people don't know this is a really funny story i had a guy who calls me well no that you
[00:53:26] need an event to like start the injury whereas i've worn out my knee the perfect let me give you
[00:53:32] the perfect example i'm a garbage man i've worn out my knee i have a client who was an ac transit
[00:53:37] bus driver who says jesson my neck is killing me i just i go over all these bumps you know i'm
[00:53:43] staring at the road my neck is killing me been doing this for 20 years i said that's that's a
[00:53:47] classic repetitive stress injury so we file it he comes to see me i file it meaning i send the
[00:53:54] first notice to the employer that my client has an injury oh really so the workman's
[00:53:58] comfortable i start the process oh okay you can do that i can do that ac transit i should know that
[00:54:04] but it says to him fill out this form and he he says well how do i fill it out like well when were
[00:54:11] you hurt exactly that's my point and i said so he calls me and i said just say it was a repetitive
[00:54:17] stress injury they're telling me it can't be that i need to put where out what bus i was on and
[00:54:22] where i was when i got hurt because that's what their their training books that's what their
[00:54:26] training management and that's not the wall i mean literally a a cumulative trauma is an acceptable
[00:54:31] form of injury but this large employer couldn't figure it out that that's what the claim was
[00:54:37] and they made my client feel like an idiot no that's i feel like an idiot i'm just i just
[00:54:42] filed a claim but i wasn't so you know i had to walk him through it i helped him through it
[00:54:47] and we did it and they still were thinking you're doing this all wrong but you know
[00:54:53] this literally we did this two weeks ago so totally an acceptable form of injury and it's one that
[00:55:00] when you have a union member who works 30 years in a warehouse lifting or driving a truck for 20
[00:55:07] years or doing whatever they're doing and their body is just worn out well that's the thing you
[00:55:13] wouldn't expect a car to go 100 000 miles without needing some repair you know right
[00:55:19] and and even if just like you said even if you've occasionally gone to your own doctor
[00:55:24] and gotten massage or acupuncture or whatever spinal fusion spinal fusion's a little hard
[00:55:29] but if you've gotten some treatment like at the end of your employment that you should be
[00:55:35] filing a cumulative trauma claim that you're like it's really simple to me well if i put you
[00:55:42] on a couch for 30 years would you be the same shape as you are now probably not right your
[00:55:49] body is beaten up what's the difference i've been working right okay well that i've been working for
[00:55:56] boxer gerson the employers were we're responsible for that right and and we would we would tell
[00:56:02] our employees i've got a klutzy assistant we we would tell our employees to file a workers
[00:56:08] count claim right there's no there's no we don't hide from that we'd be really awful if we tried to
[00:56:13] tell our employees not to file workers count that's true you would be awful we don't and you're not
[00:56:19] awful no we would we would tell any person you're saying not only that but the firm practices
[00:56:26] what they preach union shop union shop we're proud of that fact i mean that that are but it
[00:56:33] get back to that earlier point which is amazing because the interests of a union worker and non-union
[00:56:38] worker i never even thought of the difference totally right totally i mean you could have a
[00:56:44] we represent people of all different well just using the fedex gps guy you know so
[00:56:51] yeah i mean fedex guy fedex is a bad example they make i don't know i don't know what do
[00:56:56] they make decent money i don't write but even if you're heard at fedex it's like fuck it let
[00:57:01] me let me let me hit go get a job at ups right i can get a job i can get a job someone let me
[00:57:06] get what i can out of fedex and i'll go somewhere else right i don't i don't have i don't have a
[00:57:11] pension i'm building right i don't have any of these things that i don't have any long term
[00:57:15] commitments to these people you know get me out and and the employers are are are keen on that
[00:57:20] they will make offers you're not supposed to do resignations in workers count the judges
[00:57:26] will tell you it doesn't happen where yeah right all the time we get insurance companies saying to us
[00:57:33] look here's here's an offer of a hundred thousand dollars but i need your client to go away right
[00:57:39] wink wink and and you know look we present that to our client and for the most part you have people
[00:57:45] who are like fuck that job that i made fifteen dollars an hour right and go find another
[00:57:50] job for fifteen dollars an hour sure i'll resign you don't get that with it with a union member
[00:57:56] they're like even if you pay me a hundred thousand dollars i make that money in two years and i'm paying
[00:58:02] into my in my retirement and right like that's not worth it for me that's a bad deal and they're
[00:58:08] right oh absolutely yeah that's why my job's not worth you really have to understand that
[00:58:15] that fact to understand why a union member might be motivated differently than a non-union member
[00:58:22] that's that's critical to representing somebody and it's scary when you see people
[00:58:29] so so how did so how did the firm get started i mean you guys are big now so you're managing
[00:58:36] partners so how i mean how much time do you spend managing and how much time do you spend
[00:58:39] with clients well covitt has sort of made that a really weird dynamic we have we have
[00:58:47] lawyers working summer in the office summer at home when did you start as managing partner
[00:58:51] three years ago three years ago so a year and a half of that's been it's been a wild ride yeah
[00:58:58] to say the least congratulations and there's i always joke with some friends of mine
[00:59:05] i'm not i don't pride myself as being oh my god wait a minute you're the employer
[00:59:10] i'm the i'm the bad employer right so i don't pride myself on being some expert
[00:59:14] employer i mean it's the first management job i've had you know i think i was just
[00:59:20] the guy suckered into doing it so
[00:59:25] this that covitt has made me realize there's like the guidance we're given to run a firm
[00:59:33] or to run a business in this environment is so awful i mean i can't tell you how many times
[00:59:38] i've gone to our lawyer and said what do i do now like can i require vaccines or not
[00:59:44] can i ask about a vaccine or not i've called i've had talks with some of the secretary treasurers at
[00:59:49] the locals right here's what we're doing right i don't know if this is right or wrong i mean today
[00:59:55] the federal government announced that they're going to quote require vaccines even though it's
[01:00:00] not a real requirement well they're going to require it or testing or tech like i don't know what that
[01:00:05] does and and i don't know if you saw but maybe two months ago the city and county came up with
[01:00:09] a rule that we're requiring all city employees city and county employees to be vaccinated
[01:00:15] well except they're not the it doesn't even go into effect until the fda approves of the vaccine
[01:00:22] and then there's religious and and medical exemptions so it's like everyone has these
[01:00:28] different rules it's shocking nobody knows what to do well part of it was is honestly i
[01:00:35] you know i have strong feelings on this subject but it was never people weren't stupid enough for it
[01:00:39] to be a question before it's like oh there's a vaccine and it's fda approved and my doctor says
[01:00:45] get the vaccine but i'm not doing it but i'm going to listen to some guy on facebook because
[01:00:49] my fucking doctor doesn't know what he's talking about i right and i i it's been such a weird
[01:00:57] i was like where do i get the shot speaking of covid though so what if i what if i get now
[01:01:03] covid claims are scary i mean we've had we've had covid claims right i've seen some awful stuff
[01:01:09] i work i'm a nurse and i come down with covid i have a i have i have do i call do i call you
[01:01:15] guys or absolutely and what's scary about covid is well you got the long haulers we don't know
[01:01:21] so i i represent a long hauler now who it's the scariest thing so she can work we're talking about
[01:01:29] covid in regards to work in regards to workers comp yeah she she covid tested positive now she
[01:01:36] doesn't test positive anymore whoa but she has we're nine months after the fact
[01:01:43] she cannot work more than six hours a day at the six hour mark she literally can't drive herself home
[01:01:51] because that's how exhausted she is this is a woman who has had this she's a doctor has had this job
[01:01:58] for for decades never had a problem never had a problem yeah she gets covid she cannot work so
[01:02:04] kaiser says sorry got nothing for you and oh we can't we're not gonna we're not gonna put you
[01:02:12] we're gonna put six hour doctors we're not gonna put you on a modified schedule well they did
[01:02:17] and and now they're like we're done we don't have permanent six hour doctors there's this
[01:02:21] poor lady's gonna lose her job well the weird thing is is being in the union guy for a minute
[01:02:26] is now you've got issues of seniority and everything else because somebody else some other doctor
[01:02:31] who has three young children might want a six hour shift it's it's really it's it's really it gets
[01:02:39] tricky but but it's it's crazy to me because we also don't know well what i first what i've told people
[01:02:45] in that scenario two is is then go out and get covid because it's not apples the apples right
[01:02:51] right here go go get covered and then you can have the six hour shift so the treatment for
[01:02:57] for the long haulers have received is just it's not even existent yeah then they they sent my client
[01:03:03] to a psychologist like what what is the psychologist going to do she's mentally fine she just can't
[01:03:09] she has her body in her ears she has total exhaustion and there's nothing they can do to treat
[01:03:14] it they've every test they've run clean right they have no idea why she's still out yeah if
[01:03:20] you file the claim on time she's got a she can make an argument whereas in the future if you
[01:03:25] you know if you don't if you don't raise your hand you don't raise your hand you just
[01:03:28] you're s l l yeah and then and then what then you have these but what's crazy is that i would
[01:03:34] imagine even 50 years from now who knows what damage this is going to do to that person's body
[01:03:38] right i mean a few of my professional football players got covid and they're like no i'm fine
[01:03:44] i didn't even have a symptom right i'm thinking dude if you if your lung capacity has impacted
[01:03:50] five percent yeah you're gonna you will notice that i probably don't know how many doses that yeah
[01:03:55] you would notice that well not only that your body is your living you know everything and so
[01:04:01] i've encouraged guys to file it's not like the old days with the raiders where it was like
[01:04:06] drinking and drugs and like these guys have figured out i gotta take care of my body as you're
[01:04:11] telling yeah i totally these guys are so precise there's no off season anymore
[01:04:17] i call these guys they're mid workout they're like oh i gotta do this work i'll call you back
[01:04:21] they hire their own nutritionists and shafts and all of that the team the teams give them
[01:04:28] week one here's your protocol week two you're working on the legs week three arms here right
[01:04:35] this is full season one case i've never forget this the raiders a guy oh shit what if you get
[01:04:42] so what if you get injured in the office so god is in the gym working out
[01:04:45] guy drops a weight on his foot okay yeah that happens shatters his foot oh lost his career he never
[01:04:51] recovered from it the raiders denied his claim is being work related like you in the in the
[01:05:00] standard NFL contract there's an obligation that they will remain in good in good shape right
[01:05:05] it's like the jeff kent fell off his truck watching his truck right and and literally he
[01:05:10] was doing exercises that the team emailed him to do but you're saying that's not work related
[01:05:16] we come on now so yeah they ended up paying on that one but this is this is what they try to do
[01:05:21] right they're gonna try because some other guy will go well yeah you know this is the way these
[01:05:25] employers are but they're just an employer to but the mindset and i know because i have this
[01:05:31] mindset too is that i'm the one that dropped the weight the team didn't drop the weight i dropped
[01:05:36] the weight yeah i hear that all the time you know it's my it's my fault it's my fault my fault yeah
[01:05:45] it's not even if it's your fault yes it's your fault but in your service doing a job in the
[01:05:50] service for and the service of your employer they are obligated that if you fuck up we're
[01:05:57] responsible they have a responsibility while doing your job while doing your job we are
[01:06:01] responsible for these benefits so when when people don't file jokes on you man and that that is
[01:06:10] it pains me to see that but but the other thing i'm trying to think of too is because i know that
[01:06:16] people are afraid that somehow they'll get you know blacklisted or or they'll you know
[01:06:21] they'll get some mark against them i've had agents call me and say yeah my guy's kind of a
[01:06:27] fringe guy is it really a good idea to file a worker's comp claim and i'm trying to get that i'm
[01:06:31] trying to think of and i've had some bad employers i had a lot i've been fortunate i had a lot of
[01:06:37] good employers too but i'm trying to think of anybody that lost their job as a result of filing
[01:06:42] comp well it shouldn't happen well of course there's a lot of things you know a lot of things
[01:06:46] that should not allow to retaliate there's there's there's a anti-discrimination provision
[01:06:51] in the labor code that they can't discriminate against somebody for filing an injury claim
[01:06:55] but we can't protect the the simple stuff right for example one employer well if you don't get to work
[01:07:02] one employer who shower main name was yes they'll know if they if anyone's ever listening yes
[01:07:07] they'll know everyone who gets hurt gets put on modified work with the opposite shift so a night
[01:07:15] a daytime worker it's supposed to be the similar work around the similar time so so daytime worker
[01:07:20] gets hurt released to you're gonna get me talking all day i could talk modified work as a whole
[01:07:26] night so they get put at that night shift you ready for the job well don't don't give up too much
[01:07:32] but yeah gait security they have to check in every hour taking a picture to prove that they're
[01:07:38] still alive okay they're doing the job breathing yeah all it's doing is punishing the person for
[01:07:43] filing an injury claim right so you have people who you know have family situations where maybe
[01:07:50] they're home at night their wife works nights or opposite right this totally destroys their their
[01:07:56] existence because they got hurt on the job and now they have to work nights or they don't get paid
[01:08:00] well they're gonna harass them back to work it's just and and the whole point of that is
[01:08:06] well if you can get back to full duty you can come back right now right well
[01:08:11] it's this belief that somebody files an injury claim for fun like it doesn't right it's not
[01:08:17] financially beneficial it's not like in what world do people file workers comp claims for fun
[01:08:24] right yet a lot of employers just assume that well you know the sad thing is is there's the
[01:08:31] stated intent of something and then there's the real intent and talking about modified work
[01:08:36] because i've told people over and over throughout the years they're like
[01:08:40] what i'm doing is not productive in any way no and i said the whole purpose to me
[01:08:45] and the other thing is they assume modified work you know is modified work so you jump in when i get
[01:08:52] this wrong is an insurance company construct to keep employers from filing claims with the
[01:08:58] insurance company no no no no no okay modified work is an but i mean it's it's it's there's
[01:09:06] two things going on perhaps that the most obvious is the claim has less value right because the
[01:09:14] employer is paying the person to come to modified work right the insurance company isn't paying the
[01:09:19] person right i think two the idea is well the idea is to shame people out of being hurt that would
[01:09:26] be number three right but but i think the the theory behind modified work is well if i can still
[01:09:33] use this person to my my benefit i can find work for them i can find something for them to do
[01:09:39] if we're going to pay them anyway and maybe they're more likely to get back to their full duty job
[01:09:45] more quickly if they're still coming to work every day because as we've seen with covid the longer
[01:09:51] somebody stays home the more comfortable they get easy you're the you're an employer too well so
[01:09:57] that's what i'm saying for from my perspective as an employer in fact i was joking with my
[01:10:03] assistant yesterday by the way i would say you could make either argument depends if you're
[01:10:08] married it's true that's true my my wife definitely wanted me to get back to the office but like my
[01:10:13] my assistant yesterday she said she was going to come into the office we we have an agreement with
[01:10:19] our legal assistants and secretaries and well all of our staff that they can work from home so
[01:10:25] i said are you gonna when are you next going to come in she said Wednesday morning so i go
[01:10:29] to the office Wednesday and i don't like 845 she messages me and says yeah i'm gonna stay home
[01:10:37] i wasn't mad right and i said i and i think my verse the struggle is real right to to when you're
[01:10:44] when you're do i really want to commute for an hour when i can just turn on my computer and
[01:10:49] work from here right i get it so yeah work has changed for sure there is that theory that if i
[01:10:57] force my employee to come to modified work they're more likely to keep working get back to full
[01:11:02] duty quicker i believe that but what's a what's a big misconception is that modified duty
[01:11:09] is almost 100% within is the employer's discretion no the insurance company definitely is
[01:11:17] but it's up to the employer right so so except in a cba world where where you may have an
[01:11:24] agreement that they'll ought to they provide 30 days of modified work and that's it for a normal
[01:11:31] non-union mom and pop shop they make a choice to offer modified work or not and if not they have to
[01:11:38] pay you right if they do offer you modified work you the employee have to come well and also
[01:11:45] once somebody refuses modified work they don't get paid they don't get anything so i get a lot of
[01:11:50] what happens with somebody's injury in that case so if they're crazy enough to do go down that road
[01:11:54] to deny to refuse modified work well there's and i'm sure you guys see it a lot
[01:12:00] i've seen and i've seen in a lot of cases where the occupational health place will say oh no
[01:12:06] they're okay to do x and y and the person's like i can't fucking do this happen to me i can't do
[01:12:11] that for eight hours a day so i had a union member call me yesterday the occupational medicine doctor
[01:12:18] released him to full duty two weeks ago he said i can't do that so he never physically can't do it
[01:12:26] he said there's no way so he just said i'm staying home and he calls me are we getting into qme
[01:12:32] land or well so we eventually get there but he says what do i do and i said you're gonna get
[01:12:38] fired right like we all remember back in high school days like you need a note right you need
[01:12:44] a note signed by a parent right to not come to school you can forge it whatever but they need a note
[01:12:50] works no different it's a no call no show right you just if you don't have a medical you just don't
[01:12:56] go you just don't go you're gonna have you're gonna get a point you're gonna get written up
[01:13:01] right and then you're gonna get terminated and you're gonna say well it was because my injury
[01:13:05] like i didn't think i could work well so yeah no doctor has taken you off so i urge those people
[01:13:12] in that situation to go to the er go to your private doctor get some medical note to cover the period
[01:13:18] and get a lawyer's help to fill it in retroactively to get you those benefits and that's why
[01:13:25] that's why pre-designating is so important get back to pre-designating because if you
[01:13:30] could work your own doctor i pre-designate because i can most people for a union member you
[01:13:34] can go talk to your union will have a form they have a form we give the form that you can
[01:13:39] download the form you can just type pre-designate into google just pops right up state form will be
[01:13:44] there it's really simple you just you got to do it gotta do it if you don't do it
[01:13:50] you're stuck with occupational doctor not listening to you and telling you well and that's
[01:13:55] only one body part which one all right i can tell you a true story and this was a ups driver and
[01:14:01] i wasn't directly involved in this case it wasn't my member it wasn't i was just purely an observer
[01:14:08] and the guy had danced at his wedding right he was out on comp right he had danced at
[01:14:16] at his wedding at the request of his wife who was like we got to do this dance and it was on facebook
[01:14:21] right and his friends are the supervisor supervisor sees him dance on this video on facebook
[01:14:28] and they terminate him yeah they terminate him and he did one dance which was a minute and a half
[01:14:35] or whatever compared to like a full ups package driver right you know seven eleven and a half hour
[01:14:43] shift to seventy pounds you know and and and it was so absurd long story short is the union
[01:14:48] protected him in this case and he got his job back because it was totally absurd but
[01:14:53] that happens man people get fine you know more absurd this guy couldn't do that job for nine
[01:14:58] hours more absurd than that and and this this hits home for for and then you can get a fresher
[01:15:05] younger guy this is going to hit home if if he hears this you probably won't but but uh
[01:15:11] a gentleman what do you mean probably won't well i don't i don't i don't we have a broad
[01:15:16] audience i don't think he'll listen i will tell him the lesson though i'm kidding so anyway so he'll
[01:15:20] hear this story so guy hurts his knee insurance company sends over an investigator says
[01:15:28] guys like okay hurt my knee yeah i'll talk to you want to race buys him breakfast takes him out to
[01:15:34] breakfast the investigator investigator takes this guy out to breakfast and is recording a statement
[01:15:41] and he says so he's wearing a wire well he's recording it he just tells him i'm okay i want to
[01:15:46] record this that's a recorded and and he says do you go running do you run now if i ask you do
[01:15:54] you run what are you thinking i'm thinking no way i run well like i'm just just a job if i if i
[01:15:59] walked up for for hanging out of barneson right did you run what are you thinking
[01:16:05] like do you're probably thinking do i lace up my nikes and go running right for an hour is that
[01:16:10] am i jogging my jog well context is so huge too but yeah this guy am i a runner this guy
[01:16:18] a month later is at his son's high school football game or pop watering classic his son gets hurt
[01:16:28] he jogs out to the middle of the field right jog jogs back
[01:16:39] district attorney prosecuted him for fraudulently pursuing insurance benefits why do i know about
[01:16:46] this do i know about this you do okay because he was because he said he couldn't run right oh
[01:16:53] fuck are you kidding me jogging out his son in the football field his son was injured just trotting
[01:16:58] out there i don't care how much pain if my son's on the football field injured i'm gonna find a way
[01:17:01] to jog out there that's what's funny so prosecuted over that once you have kids it's like
[01:17:07] so yeah it's just so moral of that story is when your member gets hurt when you employee get hurt
[01:17:16] and the insurance company says i'd like to take a recorded statement your what do i say hannah should
[01:17:21] be up right you say no well wait a minute so are they we're gonna record that for the employee's
[01:17:27] benefit no yeah in any circumstance it's never gonna help you so like if they say how did
[01:17:34] you get hurt fine tell me when they start asking questions about what happened and what you physically
[01:17:43] can't it all right you're up to something and i want a lawyer involved that's what that's what
[01:17:49] your that's what you should be thinking and the sad thing is not to not to say that the law is a
[01:17:54] twisted uh dirty game but you know common sense is is yes he both things can be true of course
[01:18:02] he can go trot out and pick up his son but i don't run like that's like that's right and what in that
[01:18:09] case what was even worse is like the the guy had a diagnostic image showing the injury like he didn't
[01:18:16] make up the injury he just said no i don't i don't run and then they got him jogging on the football
[01:18:23] for two minutes not even two minutes yeah that's not running i mean i if someone asked me if do
[01:18:30] i run i wouldn't be thinking have i ever jogged in my life at any point in time and but this is why
[01:18:37] i'll tell you after that happened we we literally advised all the members at that employer to not
[01:18:46] speak with an investigator right because that's the end of that the investigator is clearly doing
[01:18:53] dirty deeds for the employer at that point trying to screw over members shut that down quick
[01:18:58] as far as the union goes and and again and this is also why having that relationship between
[01:19:03] lawyer and union is important because we were able to sort of coordinate all that and frankly stop it
[01:19:10] so that investigator was fired right because suddenly they couldn't they couldn't question
[01:19:16] anybody nobody would listen to this guy exactly so he'd call and say i'd like to speak with you
[01:19:20] no his name was was useless so they fired him and that is it really worth it that's that's the
[01:19:29] thing where it's like god it's just it's just a work injury like in that case it was a knee it was
[01:19:34] it was you know he was going to recover following it wasn't it's just it wasn't that valuable
[01:19:40] it's like the guy dancing at his wedding you know there's a video of him dancing for a minute
[01:19:45] on youtube and they fire him you know we see it a lot and that is why people need representation
[01:19:55] hire a lawyer hire a lawyer it's it's not only is it free i shouldn't say free but you're not going
[01:20:01] to pay out of your own pocket you're going to pay out of your recovery well i'll tell you my wife
[01:20:04] will be my wife knows don't talk to anybody without a lawyer don't let the police in your house
[01:20:10] it's just nuts and the biggest thing to understand is that mindset you had of hey i've been working
[01:20:16] with these people for 20 years it's not your employer it's a it's a name it's a faceless
[01:20:23] insurance company who doesn't care about you that your employer pays to not care about you that's
[01:20:29] right they don't care about you and that's hard for people to realize well they're ashamed
[01:20:34] they don't want to help we're human beings like you know like you go get a court is on shot at
[01:20:38] kaiser speaking of kaiser you know you've got to ride the wheelchair out into the parking lot
[01:20:44] and it's like i don't want to ride the wheelchair out to the parking lot you know i look like i can't
[01:20:48] walk or something right no it's you know it's a thing it is it feels weird but it but it's the
[01:20:57] hardest thing for me to say somebody to somebody and they all everybody i say to says i understand
[01:21:03] that they don't the football players i can't imagine they don't care about you well the
[01:21:07] football players know they know that the team doesn't care about them that's right they know
[01:21:12] they know their meat i mean it's sad but they very few instances has a team gone the extra mile for a
[01:21:19] player and it's players who have been there for decades look at erin rogers is having problems
[01:21:23] right now jeez he doesn't care like they just don't care he's a piece of meat right and and
[01:21:28] the more the player realizes that the better and the more the employee whether you're erin rogers or
[01:21:33] joe ups driver the more you understand dude he had a list erin rogers had a he had the receipts
[01:21:43] man he's like you guys fucked over this guy and that guy and this guy and that guy that's gonna
[01:21:48] be awkward he at least had the he has the the standing to to say yeah no i'm not cool with this
[01:21:56] but he's taken a big risk though right is this is it me or is he taking a big risk well so he's
[01:22:04] got another year left on his contract it's gonna get paid 25 million dollars you know
[01:22:09] he's he's one bad hit though from if he gets hurt he's screwed i mean in context i'm sure he'll
[01:22:16] be okay right you know he's made a lot of money his career earnings are okay sure it's
[01:22:21] it's a risk you know all those guys i mean i can't i think the most the worst example of this
[01:22:30] as a football player i represented who had a he had a really bad injury he's actually
[01:22:38] a local personality so he injured his ankle awful injury awful story developed an infection
[01:22:46] he was a free agent the infection returned he's in the hospital when he gets his large offer
[01:22:55] they didn't know as soon as they find out they pulled the offer he was that close and he can't sign
[01:23:02] it because it's fraud he was that close to generational wealth and and literally because
[01:23:08] of a hit two years earlier with a recurrent infection he never got to realize that value
[01:23:14] so thinking about like kawai Leonard when he was with san Antonio and he had like his own crew
[01:23:21] undisclosed injury that yeah and and he said he wasn't right and they were saying play
[01:23:27] and there was no evidence to the contrary that he wasn't right he was right he was right and some
[01:23:32] that his body was not right and he stuck up for himself and he took and he took a lot of
[01:23:37] shit some of you don't like him as a player but some i've handled and then he went won a championship
[01:23:45] and is like a super fucking badass i've handled cases for players who have gotten their own MRI
[01:23:53] when they were told that there was nothing wrong with them they've then gone out and paid for
[01:23:56] their own MRI and found out that there was a lot wrong with them right it was literally lying
[01:24:01] geez what's an MRI cause it can't cost that much out of pocket five six hundred dollars
[01:24:05] right the team but the team would just lie you know you're good get back on the field here's
[01:24:12] your injection yeah pain and pain relief get back on the field then guys want to play
[01:24:16] they're great though not having pain is powerful it's dangerous unfortunately so
[01:24:24] multiple guys i'm thinking of two off the top of my head they went out about their own MRI
[01:24:30] then went out and got their own surgery because the team was like there's nothing wrong with you
[01:24:34] geez i'm like uh i've got torn ligaments but kawaii Leonard was a high profile example he took a lot
[01:24:40] of shit he did and everyone you know the media was all over him yeah he's a head k
[01:24:46] does he not want to play yeah like he you know he's weak no he knew his body he knew his body
[01:24:52] yeah and and that's why like Simone Biles it's like good for her you know well especially when
[01:24:59] just her background being she was a victim of wearing a sererite like she's been through it she's
[01:25:04] the only only victim that is still had a career she's earned the right if she doesn't feel right
[01:25:12] for her to say or about is it Osaka okasa the tennis player yeah same deal yeah i don't i don't
[01:25:20] win it when went and what kawaii Leonard figured out is he had the confidence to know that i'm a good
[01:25:28] enough player someone will want me someone will want someone will pay me yeah and bios
[01:25:33] i mean bios the the the weird the fact that that's where cavernet got fucked though he did get
[01:25:40] fucked but so gross that you have you have people bad-mouthing bios and saying she's not tough
[01:25:48] right i think she went like eight years without losing an event i know not tough god these things
[01:25:55] that's women's had to put up that's pretty good now does it mean does it mean that she should
[01:26:02] have just gutted it out no like she has the right to say i wasn't up to it yeah i'm out
[01:26:08] you know and all the other comparisons so i give tom brady did that first off
[01:26:14] if if a guy like tom brady did that we'd be shocked but i don't would he be criticized
[01:26:22] yeah but would he still be the best of all time yeah right probably of course yeah like
[01:26:27] you've earned the right to i'm not a dude on your own terms i'm not a brady fan no i'm not either
[01:26:31] but i can't argue it although like i'm not a brady fan did you see that bullshit video that
[01:26:36] was going around the football the football machine so obviously and then some people like is it
[01:26:41] real no is it real it's not real it can't be real no you have you have wheels spinning the
[01:26:47] opposite direction you think he snuck the machine he jammed it spit it back out no no no but i i just
[01:26:56] the judge the weird judgmental side people have about professional athletes if if working
[01:27:04] on behalf of the athletes has taught me anything it's like these guys and gals deal with so much
[01:27:11] they're just humans yeah and if and you're gonna side with jerry jones for christ sake right
[01:27:17] it's not a real not a real good human being are we siding with billionaire owners right like yeah
[01:27:24] they're right oh god so this is why it's ruined my yeah it's hard to like football right now
[01:27:32] especially the whole it's like the tobacco company saying cigarette smoking's good for you you know
[01:27:38] that all the all the cte stuff and the protocols and then the you know they they do it but then
[01:27:44] that it's all half-hearted and collins collin cappernick situation well he could fuck me like that guy
[01:27:51] it's funny all the stuff that lamar jackson is doing now i mean cap right did that i don't
[01:27:58] i don't pretend to agree with everything these guys say or do right and i don't know why
[01:28:06] we find what they say to be so important right like that's a good point with the vaccine right
[01:28:12] you're getting these a lot of athletes barb barkley said something stupid i think yeah well
[01:28:17] well he said anyone who doesn't get a vaccine is stupid right but oh he did is that what he said
[01:28:21] yeah well he's smart he said or he said anyone who doesn't get a vaccine is an ass all right oh good
[01:28:25] for him but like at some point you never know with him what you're just an athlete and i love
[01:28:32] that respect you but like why do why do we as a society place so much importance on what what
[01:28:40] well i'm not going to ask you what you think of britney spears then
[01:28:43] like a 23 year old guy thinks about a vaccine it's his choice oh my god i know i saw someone
[01:28:50] 23 i i my wife's fairly politically active and i center this article that said children were
[01:28:57] protesting mask wearing and whatever you know and it was like a new york state or something
[01:29:05] like that at some hearing protesting and i'm like my children protest any meal that's not pure candy
[01:29:12] i mean it's like who would ask a child whether they should wear a fucking mask or not you know
[01:29:21] i'm protesting no donuts for right or no cookies for breakfast that's what i'm protesting
[01:29:28] they're gonna ask kids if they want to wear a mask or not of course not of course not yeah
[01:29:33] it's weird that's the world we're in though it's just kind of you know and then they put
[01:29:37] them up there and now they're you know and then the people who are on one side of an argument go look
[01:29:42] the kids don't want it it's like they're kids they got promised a slurpee if they know they'll
[01:29:48] say anything my kids will say anything for a slurpee mine too slurpee under oath by the way
[01:29:57] i'm just and that's but they're children right right but and that's why that's why it pains me when
[01:30:04] it's my children don't testify right their credibility of course yeah that's why like when we have
[01:30:10] when we take the word of athletes to be
[01:30:16] as like that's the defining opinion on something it's like you're you're making them a role
[01:30:20] model and you're putting all this weight on them they're just a guy yeah just a guy they're
[01:30:25] flawed i mean humans are flawed just a guy raise my hand what's satisfying to me as somebody who
[01:30:33] who follows unions you know is better than anybody it's hard to get members on the same page
[01:30:41] right right and when you can get members rallying around a common cause like that's that's awesome
[01:30:50] that's the power of oh my god everything gets so easy organized labor force right everything gets so
[01:30:56] easy that's what unionism is all about free delay right and recently did you see that no
[01:31:02] so they were working you know some ungodly amount of shifts and hours non-stop and finally it was so
[01:31:11] obvious to everybody that this wasn't going to stop they all just walked out good yeah yeah
[01:31:17] and no everything is so much the amazon employees i mean i know i know everything gets so much
[01:31:23] easier about that this morning like i know how how much of an effort is made with amazon employees but
[01:31:29] man they are shitty to their employees jeff bezos pays on taxes i mean they are they're totally
[01:31:35] i feel so bad for some of those amazon employees and i represent some of them right and amazon is
[01:31:40] super aggressive with their workers comp claim of course that guy gets hurt they literally just
[01:31:44] start throwing cash at them go away we don't want to treat you here's some money goodbye right cut off the
[01:31:50] injured finger yeah goodbye and all of them have the same injury they're just so overworked in those
[01:31:57] in those warehouses well another thing i wanted to talk to you about we're already an hour and 40
[01:32:04] jesus another thing i wanted to talk to you about you're gonna have to do it again because
[01:32:08] i wanted to get into the whole independent contractor piece and what do you do if
[01:32:12] you're an uber guy that gets hurt that's god i i took an uber once i may have had too much to drink
[01:32:17] and had to take an uber home and i and i asked the guy's opinion and he was like oh well uber tells me
[01:32:23] you know i don't know you like uber's tiz the app just deleted itself that i'm supposed to you
[01:32:30] know and he's like giving me all the lines of why it's better for him to be an independent
[01:32:35] contractor right and i'm like all the marketing you realized that like yeah you can have all
[01:32:40] that as an employee they're just aligned to you right you can have a flexible schedule as an employee
[01:32:46] what if i'm so what happens if i'm a new bergain i get hurt nothing you have no rights goodbye
[01:32:52] i i just don't eat now if you get in or i work hurt if if you if you get hurt on the job
[01:32:59] you have no workers comp benefits none you're on your own you got nothing you're totally on your
[01:33:04] you can sue the guy who hit you or god forbid you caused the accident you can sue the guy good
[01:33:09] luck with that but that's a lawsuit that'll take years i hope you have medical coverage because
[01:33:14] who else is providing you with medical right i mean well that's let's forget the workers
[01:33:19] comp angle you your wife gets pregnant you don't even have the ability to take a leave
[01:33:24] you don't have any of the rights let's be honest at the end of the day when you're the little
[01:33:28] guy it's my wife when you're the little guy you know they they'll just starve you out
[01:33:33] you know they may owe you so much money but they're like you know what we're just going to withhold
[01:33:37] money until this guy will sign off for anything you know yeah that's why you need help that's why
[01:33:44] the i i never forget this uber driver and i was like here hold on time out she wouldn't call us
[01:33:50] well yes she would if i was important hey sweetheart
[01:33:54] are you gonna be home for dinner yeah we're still talking though
[01:34:01] okay that's probably gonna be a no then
[01:34:05] let me bite
[01:34:11] so poor uber driver has no no rights
[01:34:16] nothing nothing i mean you know it's like it's like what he sure suckered those guys man
[01:34:23] it was such an obvious campaign right right it was so frustrating to see these people get
[01:34:29] have no rights and they didn't understand what was so maddening is they had no idea oh yeah all those
[01:34:36] things that they said were a benefit to them being independent contractors they could have
[01:34:41] had those benefits as an employee well it's a and it was run like a classic anti-union campaign
[01:34:46] which was well we're just gonna close up shop right yeah you know we're out of we're out of
[01:34:51] california yeah right yeah we're over we're not gonna yeah we're not gonna do business in california
[01:34:56] and what bothers me forget the union side of it the employee side of it what bothers me about
[01:35:02] that whole thing is just the how anti-competitive it is like why don't taxi drive taxi companies
[01:35:09] don't get away with that shit so why do we let uber get away with that shit oh don't get me
[01:35:14] starting to the airport i mean now you've got you've got taxi drivers who are basically
[01:35:18] going out of business because they can't compete they can't compete and then the airport charges
[01:35:22] the taxis for doing business at the airport whereas the uber and lifts they get a free ride forever
[01:35:28] it's it's really it and they still pay pennies on the dollar to the taxi company it's so
[01:35:34] frustrating when you're talking to a person and like they don't understand what happens is
[01:35:38] it comes to bring it all the all the way back around too is they end up with social services
[01:35:43] in the end so in the end you and i in the end you and i pay for what uber should be paying for
[01:35:49] right right somehow some way that driver who got hurt is going to go to the hospital yeah they
[01:35:55] need treatment and they should have they should have treatment get treatment and uber didn't
[01:36:00] have to provide it no so well that guy's an entrepreneur and and that's why like you know
[01:36:07] those those those billionaires would never be would never be for all those social services but
[01:36:12] the reality is they rely on them in order to operate a business because they need that stuff
[01:36:18] and they could easily just provide workers cop benefits for their for their people but no
[01:36:25] boy you're preaching in the choir it's cheaper we could do this all day i'm going to cut you off
[01:36:29] we could but my wife would kill me i know jason thanks man thank you you have for doing
[01:36:34] it again whenever you all right man that was fun just and let back thank you thank you
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